In this episode of ‘A Prisoner’s Pardon’ podcast, host Michi J wraps up a discussion with former correctional officer turned life coach and bestselling author, Jamal Javan G. They delve into the concept of ‘Living For a Living,’ exploring how individuals, especially those incarcerated, can find true freedom and empowerment from within. Jamal shares insights on the perception of prison, personal empowerment, and how changing your internal dialogue and understanding can shift your reality, making freedom possible regardless of external circumstances. Through attention and intention, he highlights techniques for managing anger and transforming adversities into opportunities for growth. The episode emphasizes the power of internal change, self-examination, and how these approaches lead to a meaningful, liberated life.

00:00 Unlocking Inner Freedom: A Deep Dive

00:20 Welcome to the Prisoner’s Part Podcast

00:41 From Correctional Officer to Life Coach: Jamal’s Journey

01:14 Exploring the Concept of Living for a Living Inside Prison

01:53 The Illusion of External Control and the Power of Inner Freedom

05:11 Prison as a University: Learning and Growing Behind Bars

06:18 Shifting Perspectives: From Victim to Victor

11:30 The Power of Gratitude and the Law of Attraction

14:56 Coaching for Transformation: Breaking Free from Institutionalization

19:40 Harnessing Emotional Control

19:58 Understanding Triggers and Control

21:00 The Power of Intention and Focus

22:50 Manifesting Reality Through Belief

27:40 The Internal Journey of Healing

32:52 Empowerment Through Self-Examination

36:58 Closing Thoughts: Hope and Future Possibilities


it's perception, the reality is, is that people are in prison long before they come to prison because they tend to feel. Disempowered, limited, stuck. So we're in then an, now we're in reaction mode or survival mode. That's prison. So prison happens first and foremost internally, and so does freedom. Hello, and welcome to a prisoner's part in podcast. I'm your host Meechie J. Today we are finishing up my conversation with Jamal Javan, G the ex. Correctional officer who now has turned life coach in also, he is a bestselling author of the book living for a living. Last week was an eye-opener on how correctional officers view inmates. If you didn't get a chance to listen, please go back and listen to how correctional officers are trained and the uniqueness of their job. Jamal now goes into his perspective as a life coach now and living for a living it how a person who is in prison can also do that. Let's continue that conversation. Jamal Say they're inside and you say a living for a living. What would you tell them? How would they live for a living if they're incarcerated? I mean, is is it possible? I would always say not only is it possible, it's actually, and this may sound crazy, It might even be easier, you know, I'm not, I think so too. So go ahead. Why do you think so? Because the illusion is taken away. When you're locked up, when you're behind bars, you know the illusion of what your life could be. You know, because people outside, they think their life is all these things, right? Money and cars and houses and all the stuff we get into. And that's really not the light. That's not the, and they're miserable. And so prison is perception, right? I always say you could live, you know, in your, in your dream home. And if someone came to the door, as they say, a police officer comes to the door and says, okay, but you're under house arrest and you can't leave that, that dream home suddenly becomes your prison, right? So it's perception, but the reality is, is that people are in prison long before they come to prison because they, they tend to feel. Disempowered, limited, stuck. So we're in then an, now we're in reaction mode or survival mode. That's prison. So when you're locked up behind bars, the illusion's taken away, right? So prison happens first and foremost internally, and so does freedom. So to be free, what do you need? Well, freedom is simply consciousness of your own power and your own choice. See, we're all sentenced to life. I always tell everybody, every one of us is sentenced to life, and most people feel like they're imprisoned to their circumstances, to their body, to their story. Everyone feels like a prisoner. Most people feel by default feel like this is, I'm limited to this. So we're all sentenced to life. The question is, how do you wanna deal your life? Sentence, right? You're, we all have life. How do you wanna do it? Do you wanna do it hard or do you wanna do it easy? Do you wanna do it well? Do you wanna enjoy it? Because in this moment, Your experience of this moment is an internal experience. Nobody can tell you how to do this moment, no corrections officer can tell you that you can't be joyful in this moment. You can't enjoy your, your, your, your experience of life in this moment. You can actually, if you learn how to take control of the inner process, the inner process is the only thing you actually have a hundred percent control over is your inner experience of life. Um, the illusion is that we have control over other people, over situations outside of ourself. This causes us to feel disempowered. But whether you're outside of a prison or inside of a prison, your inner experience of your own life is all you have ever had control over, and it's all you will ever have control over. So if you can learn to take control over your inner experience, you, you become liberated and free. It doesn't matter where you are. You could be standing outside in a forest, you could be standing in a city, you could be inside of a prison, you know, PR prison facility or outside of it. That makes no difference cuz the external does not determine the internal, the internal is what determines your quality of life and eventually will determine your external world. Hmm. So I agree with you that it's, it can be an opportunity while they're there, um, to look, to get out of what The survival mode. Mm-hmm. they can get out of the survival mode there and get into the living mode into living abs. Okay. Absolutely. Well see, I've known, I've known people that were who, who were in prison and they chose to see it as a university. They chose, they actually made a choice. And they said, I am in, I'm in university and I'm here to learn. This is a teaching. This, this entire time is here. I'm here to learn. You have, you have access to a lot of people. They'll teach you if you pay attention to people, people who are suffering, people who are disempowered, just watch they'll, you can learn from their stories. You have access to information. Like you have time that you've never had before. You don't have to worry about paying the bills. You know where your food's gonna come from. All that's provided for you. You can take a thank you. I'm gonna use this time now to educate myself. You can read, you can learn how to get in, get in touch with what you're feeling, why you're feeling what you're feeling, where does that come from? And then how do you take control of that? How do you clear and heal the past? How do you begin to take advantage of opportunities every day? Because if you can do it there, you can do it anywhere. And that's what it's about. It's about learning how to live, um, and your. Prison. There's a, there's a real, I know it sounds when we focus on our lack of choice, right? We say, okay, I'm not, don't choose to be here. Somebody the state, put me here. You know, the judge put me here. Whatever. Okay? Then we're gonna feel like a victim. We're gonna feel totally disempowered, okay? Mm-hmm. But if you shift it to, I've been given a new lease on life. Uh, this is a reset. My life that led me here is over. Cuz the past, it's over, doesn't it? Where's always tell me, where's the past? You can't find it anywhere. It's only in your mind. It's just the memories of it. It doesn't exist. So literally, you, this is new, this experience new the rest of your life is g is yet to be determined. It is going to be determined by how you respond to this moment, this season that you're in. So you decide how you're gonna do life. Mm-hmm. you're, you know, uh, we're all sentenced to life, but how you do it is being created by you. We could do it well. Empowered free. Or we could do it with our focus on all the things we don't control, which is all the external things. So none of us, whether we're in prisoner or out, have control of the external worlds that we're, that we are interacting with. The only world we have control over is our internal environment. That's it is. So many people, I think Jamal don't get that because they're trying to control it and that's why they're going nuts. you know, cuz they're thinking they can control something that's out of their control. That's not their job. I say I look at it that way. So you, I like how you turn the focus away from I say the victim mentality and get them to understand that, uh, giving them. A conqueror mentality, you know, I'm Christian. Mm-hmm. and you know, I'll say things, say that, uh, cuz I'm quoting word cuz he gives us, um, not the spirit of fear, you know, and that is totally opposite from the word that's victim mentality. Because if you have, if you have that victim mentality, you have no expectations but low. Right. So you switched the guy's mentality. It's almost like you turned a switch on on him in there and he was like somewhere else already. And not just in that hole. And that's interesting that you gotta talk. You um, had a ministry in the hole, while they were in the hole. Mm-hmm. So that is good to know they can start their training inside. They don't have to wait to, oh, when I get out I'm gonna do this and that. You know, it starts now So, oh, if it doesn't start now, it's not very gonna start because that's the, that's the, I'll be happy when syndrome right people, I'll be happy when that day in the fu It's like that day never comes. You know, I have a sign on my, in my office here. It's, it's on the wall. It says today is the tomorrow. You talked about, oh, I like that. Today is, today you talk. It's the tomorrow. Oh, today, today is the, today is the tomorrow that you talked about. You know, cause we, we, we always say tomorrow I'll do this tomorrow in the future I'll do this with, well, that's today. So it starts now and it's amazing what can happen. W the, the where your life can lead. You know, I, I know folks that were locked up in prison and had been for most of their adult life that are now millionaires. That are living well, doing amazing work in the world because of what they chose to do when they were locked up. Because they chose to get ahold of their inner inner sense of being. And they, they chose that they were gonna maximize life and they were chose, they chose to see prison as a university of training for the rest of their life. And now they're living it. And it's, you know, easy people like, oh, you're living lar, you know, look at how you're living now. It's all, I mean, it's like, but that didn't start there. It started when they were doing time. Mm-hmm. it's where, it's where their life started. And, and, and everybody, I always say, the rest of the way you spend the rest of your life is gonna be determined by what you do at this moment. And it's interesting that you say that, that they became, um, very successful. Mm-hmm. and did anything else change? So they became successful in none of these outward circumstances. Changed. Nothing changed. Nothing changed. They got outta, they, when they got outta prison, they were living in a, you know, 200 square foot room with nothing. But he such gratitude for life and existence. And when you have that kind of gratitude and for life and you feel like this is a gift, you know, really life is a gift. It comes from the source, the divine God. You know, it's been given, it's been entrusted to us and we, it's entrusted everybody, but we don't, not everybody sees it or perceives it as that gift, but if you can start seeing that this is a gift I'm alive today, what are you gonna do with it? You show up for it. You experience the fullness of it, and you treat it as a gift. It's amazing what you can make out of your life. Anybody you don't need, you actually, it's free. You don't, so what? Yep. What you're saying is like revenue revolutionary and. So it's a gift and it's the present, of course, Mm-hmm. So it's the present. So if they are thankful, it gives a new attitude and perspective, because I've seen it where when you're thankful you're not wasteful. That's right. That that's right. You and, and, and, and there, there's a principle. It's, it's a, it's like the law of gravity. It's like the law of the universe. Mm-hmm. it's the, the whatever you give attention to. Mm-hmm. will flourish in the manner in which you. Of the, it's it, it will flourish in the, in the context of the kind of attention you give to it. So when you give something attention, if you see something as a gift, it will give back to you in that same manner. So what Jesus said that he said, give and it will be given back to you, shaken together, press down, shaken together, and running over in the same manner, in the manner in which you judge it will be returned back to you. So it's, this is a principle of this isn't the way life works. It's not really punishment or reward as much as it's, this is just, it's like gravity. It's a principle. yeah. It's just a law. It's like whatever, you know, your reward is either good or bad, is just a re it is a reward. It's like sea time and harvest. So Totally. Yeah. So to say and reaping. Exactly. And if they get that pr, that principle alone would change everything. Totally. A hundred percent. Totally. So what you were saying, so they changed their life and nothing changed af outside. It was just inside. And then, Hmm. That's it. That's where the whole world is experienced, is inside. Mm-hmm. it's, we never experienced anything outside. Mm-hmm. So our inner experience is always internal, and that happens to be the domain where we have the most control, is our internal experience. So again, it's a process. I, it's, this is, you know, it, it's a, it's a, it's a, there is a process to it where we learn it's a practice, right? This is why there's certain things that you end up putting into place in your life in a day in, day out basis that takes time to, to, because we're all, you know, we all have tendencies and patterns, uh, from the past, so from unconsciousness. So it's, it, it, again, that's why I got into coaching work because it's, it's about helping people learn a new way to be. It's, again, engaging in that process. So, you know, it requires patience. It's not an overnight process, but, uh, it is a process and it, it, uh, always tell people it's the hardest. easiest work you ever do. Meaning it's challenging to break patterns, but it, it leads to a life of ease because again, mm-hmm. it doesn't matter what's happening out here. The ease is internal. Even Jesus said, with all the problems that Jesus had in life, right? he said, if you're tired and heavy laid, and if you're burdened, learn from me because my yoke is easy and my burden is light. That, so he's saying, this is the way I'm experiencing life internally, easy and light, despite all the problems out here. So it's not about the external, it never is what you gonna upset a lot of people there. Um, um, the cart, so to speak. So now I like what you're saying here because this is like getting down to the, the nitty gritty, the principal themes. So as a coach, you have someone. That you're working with because what you're, you're doing here, you're helping people not be institutionalized because it's a lot of people that can naturally go into that without understanding these principles. So if you were working with someone that failed to get this information while they ran in and they're out now and they're institutionalized, so to speak, what would you say to get them to see this now that they can turn their life around? What would be the first thing you would talk to someone who's just getting out? Totally. So, uh, first thing I, I, I like to do is, is to increase, uh, awareness. So I, in my coaching work, there's really two things that, that happen. Again, it's a process, so it's not, doesn't happen quickly, but it's, the two things is attention and then intention. So, attention is awareness. So what we want to do is we wanna start increasing our awareness because when you become more aware, there's a separation that occurs. Uh, or I say there's a gap. So again, there's, the principle is that, which is observed cannot be the observer. So, mm-hmm. we've all had an experience of anger, right? So when we get angry, if you're not aware that you're angry, you can just be angry. and people, when they get angry, they lose their consciousness. They actually lose their mind, so to speak. Yes. And then after anger subsides, you go, man, what did I say? What did I do? What happened? that's when we have to come back and say, I'm so sorry I said that, or, I'm so sorry I did that because we, I was like, I don't know what I was thinking. Like, what were you thinking? Like I wasn't thinking. I, I, I was, I was kind of taken for, I was taken over for a moment, taken for a ride. That anger took us forever. So first to wait, to wait to like start, to start to empower yourself from that is start to pay attention. It sounds really easy and cliche, but it's not. It's very profound. You start to realize what is it that, what is it that's taking my freedom in this moment? Meaning what's key? What. Causes me to lose my, my control. Is it what? What makes me angry? Start paying attention to the things that make me, I hate it when this person says this or hate it when this person does this. I hate it when, you know, whatever it may be. If you're locked up behind bars, it's like, I hate this guard, or I hate when they do this, or I hate whatever it may be, or this certain person. Like, pay attention to that because that person is, is in control of you. Nobody wants to be controlled by anybody. I was like, but you wanna be free. You have to stop giving your power away. So start figuring out where, what's making you angry because that's the people that have power over you. Then the second question is, why have you given them that power? Cuz only you can give it. Typically just asking the question what, why does this affect me? Because it is affect, it's okay to be affected, but just start to realize why does this person or situation affect me? And here's what I tell people. It's never about that situation. It's always about the past. your anger is rooted. The roots of your anger is in the past. Believe it or not. That's where it is because if you didn't have the past, you had, this would just be a situation. It would just be somebody else's issue. But because it feels personal, it's about your past. Where have I felt this previously? This kind of anger, and go back to that. Learn to see it. Just becoming aware of it. What happens is it, there's something that happens, and this isn't conscious, but it happens physiologically. What happens? As soon as you start getting aware, this person makes me angry because my dad was like that guy. Oh, I felt this kind of anger with my dad or my brother, or whatever. Something happened in the past. There is some connection or else you wouldn't feel it. So it's a trigger. We can only, so nobody, and, and this is a rule thumb, nobody can make you feel anything. How you feel comes from the inside. Now people can trigger you to feel some things. Now, that's a key distinction, right? Because if if you, if the energy wasn't inside already you, they couldn't trigger it, it wouldn't be there to be triggered. So that's why Jesus said that which corrupts a person is not from the outside, it's on the inside, right? Mm-hmm. Exactly. Mm-hmm. It's learning to say, okay, let's clean the inside of the cup so the out, don't focus on the outside, focus on the inside. Why is this affecting me? If we focus on the outside, which is that person or situation, we're gonna be disempowered. They're not the one making you feel this way. Mm-hmm. and this is, this is where we start to take control of our life and go, okay. I feel even just if you're angry, just to say, I feel angry, not I am angry. Mm-hmm. I feel angry just by saying that it release. the control. So we're gonna, we're gonna go back. I know you said at one point, but I wanna go back a little bit because like, we can't really control other people unless they give us that ability, and that's through triggering them. I mean mm-hmm. I, I think about, remember Dennis Rodman, uh, how he played ball and stuff? Mm-hmm. he would get in the head, he would get 'em angry, and then that's when they would make They would make those mistakes. So, totally. And they would only, they were then, he was then in control. So, but that's only because they gave him control. So, but that's why. they're actually being imprisoned. They allow themselves to be imprisoned themselves by that when they get into that anger, cuz they are no longer in control. So that really explains the tension. I like that. So the other one you said is intention. Intention? Mm-hmm. Okay. So intention. Intention is simply, um, it's connected to desire, right? So how do I want to experience this moment? So it's that, that's, and that's takes now, now that, you know, you can go really deep with that in the sense of intention is all, if we're gonna give it a de definition, how you would define intention is focused awareness. Right? It's focused awareness. Mm-hmm. now intention is creating your. your life's experiences are literally created through intention focused awareness. So where your focus goes. The principle here, and this is kind of said in the coaching world a lot where focus goes, energy flows. Mm-hmm. So where you put your focus is what you're gonna energize, you're gonna create. So the question is, make sure your focus is on what you want it to be. Because if your focus is on what you don't want, that's what you're empowering. So only empower what you want, not what you don't want. So that's, that's where fo that's why we have to learn to shift our focus. Now it intention is working for everybody. It's just not working for us until we get conscious of it. Because for years, my focused awareness was on things I didn't want. And it was on, I don't wanna experience this, I don't want this to happen, I don't want this to happen. It was very fear-based. And so when we're driven by fear, our focus is on the things we don't want. And that tends to be the things that happen because where focus goes, energy flows. So you have to, we have to learn to shift our focus to what we actually want. And that starts first and foremost in the inner perception, beginning to perceive what we want and experience it as if it's already there before it even physically manifests. That's, but that's how we create mm-hmm. the life we want. And I tell you where this comes out. I mean, it's powerful. The, the, the, I remember listening to a medical doctor talk about this one time he was a, he had a cancer patient that he was treating. And this lady had come in and she was, unfortunately, they caught the cancer way too late. And, uh, it was way beyond stage four, so she really couldn't be treated. Uh, it was, it was a terminal, but he didn't tell her that, uh, for whatever, I don't know exactly how they got around this, but it was, she was a candidate for what they call placebo. Mm-hmm. So this doctor said, we have to, he told her the truth, you know, you're stage four is, is very aggressive. He said, we have to start you in aggressive chemotherapy immediately. Mm-hmm. And when he told her that, she said, okay, okay, I'll do it. Whatever. But it was a placebo. He didn't tell her that it was just nothing. It was, it was no drug, but nothing. Her hair fell out. She started taking the placebo, her hair fell out. She started throwing up all the symptoms of chemotherapy, but it was nothing. It was a placebo. And he realized in that moment, like the power, like why? Like she's literally manifesting in her body. Mm-hmm. what she believed. And it was just a placebo. Because we have the power actually in our, that we've been created in such a way that how we perceive becomes manifest reality. Like we're literally creators imagination the power of imagination. Yeah. Yeah. And if you think about it, you know, from a spiritual perspective, if we're made in the image and likeness of God, which is what we're told, you know, the scriptures that we're made in the image and likeness, we go, what is God? God's a. So we're creating, when we look at the world, the way the world is, who's doing this We are. So you're saying though, like someone that's incarcerated or you know, ha is in survival mode. Their focus is wrong. They're focusing on the wrong things. And so that's where they're being led to and all their actions because of Yeah, and, and we could do, we could, we could do the reverse engineering where we look back at the past and go, this action led to this action, which led to this action, which eventually led to the incarceration. Right. So our that, that when it manifests and shows up physically and the physical space and time is always the last stage of creation. we, we tend to focus on it as if it's the first stage. It's not, it's the last stage. So if you want to change the reality, you don't change the external. That's the last thing that manifests. You change the energy and the focus internally. That's when you're, you start to change the world, get to the roots of it. Mm-hmm. which is the spiritual, because Absolutely, yeah. The s spirit. Spiritual is what makes up the physical. That's the control area. Mm-hmm. is the internal. Yeah. I'm totally in agreement. This is, uh, fascinating and I hope my audience, you know, if you've been in, if you are incarcerated, you know, if you take in the things what Jamal just said about attention and intention, so it's like when they're responding to a guard, their response will be different Now. Absolutely. Because yeah, the, the guard only has external control, but not internal control. Hmm. And, and, and that's the most important. So, you know, you don't have to give your power away to anybody, a corrections officer, anybody. You keep that power yourself by choosing how to respond. And then you're free, even though you'll be physically incarcerated, but you won't be spiritually or mentally, so to speak, right. Incarcerated because the totally, and that's where your life is. Your whole life is inside, inside you. It's not out there. So y you being in control of your life, this is how you get control over it and the actions, the way you respond to not just prison guards, but to everybody, everybody will determine what your life becomes. So you said attention, they got to watch those triggers ex I call it the science of examining and testing. Yes. Um, and looking at what's actually triggering them. And you said something from their past. So yeah. The way, the reason we feel a certain way about something is because we're being triggered. That energy is inside of us to get triggered. Somebody may do something in a certain way that triggers us, but that that means it was already there before that person said or did anything. That means that energy was already there, that anger was already there. So the question's, where did it come from? And it's usually the past, something unresolved from the past that's still there. So there's another principle that's very powerful in this work, and that is what you feel. You heal what you feel, you heal. So if you can learn to feel it. there's a way to actually feel anger in a way that actually empowers you versus disempowers you. So when you, let's say somebody says something and really get, triggers you, and you wanna attack them, or you wanna fight 'em, or whatever it may be, okay? So if you, if you lash out in that anger at that person is disempowering because what you're doing is you're saying they're, they're the source of my pain. They're not, they're just the trigger, the source of your pain's inside of you. So if you can go inside and go, okay, what am I feeling? When have I felt I actually asked the question, when when's the earliest? I can remember feeling this. Have I felt this before? Yeah. When, and then memories will come, memories will start coming to mind, oh, I felt this way when so-and-so did this in the past or whenever this happened. Let's feel it. So what do you do? I, I like to ask people, where do you feel it in the body? It's a kind of a strange question. usually when you get angry, you feel it. Either it's your chest, sometimes it's your neck back, it's your head stomach. Sometimes it's okay, wherever it is. Io find it, it's find it. Where is it in the body? You take your hand, you put it there. You just feel it. And just take some, start, start doing some deep pa like, tune into it, feel it. The sensation, Cause what you feel, you heal it. It's not pleasant, but it, what you're doing is you're getting present with it and you're letting it, cuz it's trying to get out. Mm-hmm. see, it's trapped energy in the body. And it's the past trying to, it's literally trying to get out because when it, when it happened, maybe it was trauma in the past, we weren't able to process it then because we were, it wasn't safe. Maybe we had to get out of the situation quickly or whatever, and we were in fight or flight mode. That means we weren't equipped to process it in the past. But this is why it comes back up because we're trying, your body's literally trying to expel it. So the person who you think is your enemy or nemesis that's triggering you is actually your healer. In reality, they're, they're being used as a tool to trigger you to get this energy to come up so you can release it. It's, it, you know, it's kind of a crude analogy, but let's say you eat bad food. You know, if you eat bad food immediately, the body's gonna try to get it out, get rid of it. Mm-hmm. So in order, but in order for it to come out, it's gotta come up and that's not pleasant. Mm-hmm. it's part of the process though. So you're saying, so sending emotions. Thank you. So adversity is part of the process, so it's actually, it's a key to healing. Yes. It's an opportunity, so to speak. Yep. Okay. That makes sense. I like that too. Um, so in your book, living to To Live, right? Living For Living. Mm-hmm. Living For Living, is that in your book that. Process you just went through a little bit? Not a lot of it. some of it is the, the book really gets into the, it's more of a, examining these concepts from an intellectual standpoint and also my story of, of things that I did, choices, decisions I made throughout. So it kind, it's kind of there, but it's more in the format of, uh, example, it's really meant to before, see, before these techniques can actually have it have its proper effect. We almost have to change our way of thinking about certain things because most people honestly are still convinced that my salvation of my solutions are gonna come out here. Mm-hmm. And they don't, this is why it's an internal reality. This is why Jesus said the kingdom of. Is within you. Right? It's in here. It's not out there. Yeah. That's, that was news to people. It's temple. Mm-hmm. Yep. So you have to shift your, like even the word repentance, you know, if we're gonna use that language, like, like Jesus, the first thing he would always say is, repent. Because the kingdom of heaven is a hand, which I know that can sound weird to some people, but the word actually means repentance. Means to change your mind. Yeah. Turn around. Mm-hmm. it's a shift. It's a shift in the mindset, the thinking. And if that has to come first, because the mind will block you from being able to move into this work, the mind will actually, will actually throw up roadblocks. Like, uh, that's easy for you to say, but this person out here blah, blah, blah, blah. Or this situation out here is my, the reason I'm suffering. And it, it'll try to assign that kind of blame because our thinking has not changed yet. That it took me a l it took me personally years to realize I was creating my pain. Unconsciously. Mm-hmm. that's a hard one because it felt like blame, but it's, it's not about blame, it's just about realizing the power we have. Right. We are so powerful. We can create powerlessness. Right. When someone says I can't do this. That's right. Because that's how powerful you are. You create that reality. Yeah. So that's how it's so bad when people don't have hope. Mm-hmm. it's you. You won't be able to create anything. You won't be able to do anything cuz hopelessness don't have anything. There's nothing in there to create with, so. Right. You need something to create with. So I really like this. So if someone wanted to be involved in just being coached by you, how would they get in touch with you? Yeah, the best, the best way is probably through just practically speaking, is through the website. Mm-hmm. So I have a website and then my website is, uh, the links to my book is there. I have a podcast that's there and also the coaching, um, journey. All of that is there and how to get in touch with me, contact all that stuff's there. And my website is Jam Jamal, it's just my first and last name, so it's jamal Okay. I'll put that in the show So, because I, I think your background it, that, even though at first it looked all kind of fuzzy is like it's, you know, having, you know, um, cuz you can speak to. People from Islam as well as Catholics and from a prison perspective and give this coaching and you can really reach a lot of people. So that's why I was wanting to know how people can come alongside with you if they wanted to work more with you and get this coaching. I love his hat. I know people can't see that he has this, it looks like, is that a Red Cross hat or it's, it's like it's averted. It's sim. Yeah, it's similar. Is looks like the Red Cross, but it is actually a Swiss flag. I have a friend from Switzerland that came to visit and he brought me that, that's their flag. Uh oh. But it looks just like the Red Cross and that's why I wear it actually. Okay. Because it, it's a reminder of my, of my purpose. I think so too. That's what I got from like the image, you know, with you talking about, you know, taking your pulse and trying to figure out where the pain is. I like that. Um, I like that demonstration and just showing people really just how to, how to examine themselves. Like how women would, check for breast cancer or some sort of lump or something that we should be also doing that sort of a thing, um, with other types of pain and paying attention to our pain and being in the moment. We miss so much, like you said, cuz we're not in the present mm-hmm. Um, and that's how we just don't focus on what we can do. So that's part of a, I think how, um, Why it's so bad to be not focused and just having all that distraction because this culture kind of has that everywhere from on a computer to popups, um, your phone ringing. Um, it's so, it's so easy for people to get in touch with you now cuz you carrying your phone and they can always, you can text you, email you, you know what's up. You, it's so many ways they can get, they can reach you. It's like, I look at that as like, sometimes you just need to be in a quiet place and I think that's one of the reason why I think that people in prison can look, find those opportunities, those places of opportunities that they have. I'm not saying it's fortunate so much that they're there, but utilize what you do have there because people on the outside normally don't have, have that time. So is there anything else you wanna. Say to the audience, what big statement would you say? I, I really thank you for being here. That's being a life coach. I think you're perfect for the position and I'm pretty sure people are gonna contact you just because of you give the, the care. people listen to people who they feel that care about them. So I, I know you're gonna make a big impact. Mm-hmm. So what statement would you have, big statement would you, have for people that's in prison, outta prison, whether it's, a family member of someone, that's in prison? What would, what would you say to them as a coach? Hmm. well, thank, first of all, I just wanna say thank you for, just the generosity you've extended for me to be on your show. It's, I really have enjoyed being with you and having this conversation, and I would tell people, That are listening to this. And I would just say, you know, and I, I've, I've, my years of experience have shown me that everything's on purpose. There are no coincidences or accidents. Your life is not an accident. Your, your being here in this moment is not an accident. If it, if your life didn't matter, you wouldn't be here. And you are here right now and you're listening to this because you are meant to listen to this. And it's because your future is dependent upon this moment. And what you do with it, and it's, and you are literally in control of this, is the, you know, God has given you the keys, to this quote unquote internal reality, this internal kingdom that's been given to you. And, your hope is found, in that place. And so it may sound cliche, but there's a bright future in front of you because the future is literally contingent upon the power that you have in this moment, which is infinite. And, it's okay that you may not see that or near, or or experience that in the f in the fullness as it is in this moment. But just pay attention to this moment. And then I always like to tell people, what's your takeaway? You know, what is your one takeaway from this conversation? Probably, there's probably been several things, but if you can just boil it down, what's your one takeaway and just chew on that for a while, get clear about it, chew on it. You don't have to worry about what to do with it. It will take root in you and it will sprout and give life to, and it'll just happen naturally. Wow. Yes. Thank you. And you even have the voice of meditation too. Like you could just listen and be like, oh, I'm in all in that moment. I have to open my eyes. Okay. Yeah, I'm, I'm doing a podcast, Michelle. Okay. Doing that now. But this is a great show. I really enjoyed you, Jamal, and I'm pretty sure the audience enjoyed you as well. So thank you for being here. And you all make sure you hit Jamal up and tell 'em Mechi j sent you from a prisoner's. Pardon.