E64 – Saving Our Community – The Antidote for Anger with Guest Robert Dean Bell

Hello everyone. And welcome to a prisoner's part in podcast. I'm your host Meechie J. I'm sure everyone has heard about the latest incident of a shooting in Georgia. This is where a young person. Took upon himself to, kill a number of his fellow classmates. What is all of us stemming from? I say it's anger. We're seeing so much anger in our society. We see it in road rage. We see it in offices. We see it at home. Work. We're see it. Our church. We're seeing it in ourselves. We're just seeing it everywhere. And this is what leads to why a lot of people. Are in prison. And when even when they get out, they're still having this anger. So, what do we do about this? That is what a prisoner's pardon podcast is all about. It's about a pardon? A pardon is an act of forgiveness. And that's how we counteract anger. We do it with forgiveness. I'm pretty sure most of us have been told. We need to forget. But. Did they tell you how to do it? Did they explain to you that. Forgiven someone doesn't necessarily mean that there's no accountability. We're going to be talking about how to forgive someone for one of the most hardest things to forgive a person for. Today we're going to have as a guest is Mr. Robert Dean. he is a Milwaukee native. He is a, a O D a counselor. He's actually now a pastor as well. He's a husband, father. Business owner, and now he is an author and we're going to be talking to him about his book because he does talk about forgiveness Welcome pastor bell. How you doing? Me I'm doing great. I have you now on the show with me to talk about your new book. 80 Barry white voices, I want you to go into detail about the title. You guys, I have the book and I've already read it and I just highly recommend it to the audience because it's going to give you a good insight just a lot of things in life and how you can overcome it. But let's tell us more about you. Oh, well, my, my name is Robert bill. Like you said, I'm born and raised here. in Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the moment, I'm a pastor. I'm the pastor of light church, Milwaukee here on 56 and burlock. I'm a proud and happy husband, uh, Latrice bill, seven children. Um, just, a new life. Oh, yeah. I know it's a new life because I read your book. I went through everything and, yes, it's definitely a new life and looking at you now, most people wouldn't think that you've been there, but I'm here to tell you, no, that's not the case. Yes. But tell us more about. Why did you name the book 80 Barry White Voices? I named the book 80 Barry White Voices because it is what I heard. It was the voice of God that, that changed my life. And it's really not giving it away. You can still get the book and you're gonna be like blown away. But it was, it was what I heard from God. And it sounded like. 80 barely white voices and everybody know barely white. He was a singer. He had a real deep voice, you know, and I'm talking about it was 80, but it was a gentle 80, very white voices that I heard that changed my life. Hmm. Okay. All right. Tell us more about, I know we don't want to give the book away, but, we had a tragic thing happen. You're leaving. It was your younger brother. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you're the oldest, right? Yes. Okay. And he got killed and you had to go to court and you spoke some about forgiving the killer of your brother just enlighten us a little bit more. What led to that? Oh, well, I was in prison. I was getting out two weeks later and you know, when you go on a journey, see if you can just keep being a knucklehead or you can get to catch yourself. But I've always been a cat that was curious about books and getting around people that were knowledgeable. I always hunt around the older crowd, even though I was street, straight street. Um, this is one of those times. It's like, man, I gotta get my head together, man. And I was getting out two weeks later. I remember I was getting out February 28th and my brother was murdered February 12th and it happened. And this is when I was like coming deep out of the game, you know, things were changing in my life, um, for a point because I went back, but. At that moment in my life, God had been speaking to me like I just didn't want to be in the streets no more. I was like, I want to be a grown man. I want to do grown man things. And once I get, I got that news February 12th, they called me, um, to the office that night. You know, usually they wait, they don't tell you nothing because they don't want no riots to take place and nobody go crazy. So they'll wait till everybody go to sleep or whatever. But this particular day, it was early. Time and they called me down and said, um, that my brother was murdered, you know, uh, at a, at a local, at a bar. And there was over a girl, the other guy, girl liked it, my brother. And it was, it was crazy. It was just, it made me so mad, but once I, uh, but I just stayed positive. Did I want to kill dude? Did I want to go back to the old life? Absolutely. But it was like, God had his hands on me and, um, I got out. Then they, I think they finally found him weeks later and, um, probably a month, a couple of months out after I got, I don't know, in Tennessee, brought him back and he was, uh, facing trial. Wow. That happened pretty quick. You know, a lot of times they don't find the person so now did you know him? No, I, most of his family though, everybody was like, yeah, I was pretty known in the streets, even to this day. And, um, I walked in, our family sitting on this side, and they family sitting on this side. And there was, uh, it was like, it was a few cats like, Oh, what's up, babes? I was like, hey, what's up, man? And it was crazy. They didn't even know how to feel. And, and I, you know, I sat on the side with my family, and we went from there. And, um, just remember my family going up. And everybody was like, you need to, I hope you suffer, you know, stuff like that, but I, I didn't feel none of that. I was, I was. I didn't, I couldn't even explain the feeling. God had me at peace. He already told me what to say. And, um, I knew I had to be opposite of what was being said. And so when I got on the stand, I talked about my brother and how much I love them. And you know, a little stuff when we was kids, cause I watched all of them, you know, I'm the oldest out of five boys and one girl, um, I told them, I said, man, I miss my brother. Then at one point I just looked at him. I said, man, look, I forgive you, man. And I was like, why are you in there? I was like, you know, getting your word, man. I said, get in your word. I was like, cause Christ is your only hope. And I said, he gonna, he is peace, man. Cause you're going to need a man. And I was like, God bless you, brother. And that was it. I walked off court and people were stopping me and like, man, like the lawyer, that was, it was a lawyer sitting in there. She was like, I never heard nobody, you know, do that. And you can feel the power of forgiveness. In the room, it wasn't just forgiveness, but it was the power of interesting I like what you said about, it's a power in the room was filled with it and God was working on you and you couldn't have done that in my estimation by yourself. Is that correct? That is correct. So you said God was doing, a work on you, right? Yeah. I've noticed because of going through forgiveness myself, that this work that he's doing inside. Is. Where he shows you yourself. The work he's doing is where he's showing you your real self. And where you. Actually our. In life in a lot of times because of what's going on, the speed of what's going on. You never really sit down. And get a chance to really look at yourself. And you can't. Really look at yourself, how you need to, unless you have help. For instance, to look at yourself, you need a mirror. And when God is working on you at this point, He is showing. The inside of you. That's part of the work that he's doing. In that's needed when you're going through. This process of forgiveness. Where he has to help you. So You tell him getting your word while you in there is something you had to do or you were doing that prepared you for this. So it's a place you have been yourself. So you kind of saw yourself in that person. A lot of us think that when we're better than other people at times and we forget. So God has a way of bringing us back to our senses. so to speak, and getting us in that place and where we can see ourselves and, I see your, I know this is a podcast and people can't see right now and it's a powerful moment right now for you. Uh, you're reflecting on that in the power of guys. So looking at your character from before and. What you did then was is totally different. It was not the same person. Yeah, people like people used to be my mom's, you know, it hurted my heart. Once I got saved, you know, you know, I accepted Christ in my life and I have to both feet in. I had a my mind was made up. It was I was done and I made my mind up and man, it transformed my heart. I made up mine is powerful and I was done. But I but You know, making up your mind, um, got me into relationships that were broken. Got me back into relationships that were broken. And it was my mother, you know, I was the oldest. So she would tell me secrets and stuff when we was little, you know, in abusive relationships. So I knew how to get out the house and all that type of stuff. Like who to call and stuff, but all that stopped in my old life. But now when I got. Back into relationship with my mom's, you know, until my once I got my life right with Christ, my mom started opening it back up again to me because they're all less taken from me. So we share things. And one day we were sitting in our house one day and I guess the old picture came up and she was like, yeah. And then all my guys, everybody said the same thing. They was like, man, they was like, man, cast was scared when you came around, man. It was like, and my mama opened up her mouth and said, me too. She was like, I should be scared of you, man. That broke my heart, man. I was like, I didn't even know. Cause I used to snap, you know, I used to go crazy, man. You know, not meeting my real father. Everybody else had an opportunity for that in my family, but I was really hurt over the years and never met my real father and I should take it out on my mom's, you know, we throw dope together. Uh, just, she was a young mother. She was 21 with six kids. I had to think back. I was like, wow. I said 21 with six kids and I actually when she was saying she was like, no, I love my kids. But what I'm saying is that she opened up and when she said that to me, it broke my heart, man. She said she was scared of me. And I, I seen that times, you know, I saw it. I never put my hands on my mother, but the way I would, you know, flex up. Like, cause I ain't no little guy, the way I would flex up and, and the whole house would clear or wherever I was, people would just clear out cause I had this anger, man. And when she said that, that broke my heart. And that was afterwards, right? No, this was before, like, before I got saved, like. Okay. Yeah, so when I got saved, she opened back up to me. You know, when you, when you cussing your mother out, being crazy, acting crazy and all that, your parents shut down on you, you know, they, they start revealing things that they have for you, you know, and um, All that shut down on me. And so now that I'm saying my mother, we talk, it's just like, I'm a kid again. She opened up by, she tells me if she had just called me, like, guess what? You know, that, that Avenue has been opened up, but when you disrespectful to your parents, which is an authoritative level, them doors close on you. So a lot of kids out here are missing out on value, value, valuable conversations because of the disrespect. And I want to, just actually refer that back to forgiveness and it's, reconciliation, reconciling those relationships. And like you just said, if you don't have that forgiveness, there's no opening, there's no intimate conversations. And you I believe you were having those intimate conversations while you were in prison with God. And to be able to forgive, you have to not just know about God. You have to know God and have those intimate conversations. And, um, so many of us miss that because I've seen where he's more apt to listen to us than we are to talk to him. And being who he is. that's a great opportunity. And It's valuable. He's the creator of the universe and he's opening up opportunities for us to have these conversations with him and. And that was, that was a significant thing you did and it showed that, that there was things going on that you were in the business of renewing your mind. Yeah. Because I was looking into this lately about transforming and renewing your mind. You have to be. First transform before you can even renew your mind. So now you're doing this and renewing your mind was part of Lee, how you were able to forgive exactly. And then it was so powerful. I believe it's, it's, it's. It's still having an impact just like now our, our conversation now, and I'm pretty sure everybody that was in that courtroom was impacted by it because you don't see that every day. So they're still being impacted by it. I'm pretty sure they told somebody and what you did was. Very, um, that was, it was God in that room and you were being used in, the conversations you had after that and how, what you're saying now with your, your mom, you were able to, reconcile with her. My belief is you first need to reconcile with God first before all other relationships. I think that my forgiveness that God put on my life to help me when it came to forgiving others when I when I knew that I was forgiven. I knew that out in the book, but it was one time like with my mom's. Two sections. It's like when my mom's, I was graduating from, uh, adult and teen challenges, a ministry program. And I was graduating, she came and my two children came. I wasn't married at the time. And, um, she's getting my life together, but, but my mind was made up. And I remember grabbing the mic and they told me, and it's like 200 people in the room, they said, Hey. They said, um, uh, Robert, just, you know, give you a testimony. Like that's all cool. I grabbed a mic instantly. I knew the Holy spirit was like, apologize to your mother. And we have been kicking it. I've been saying it like, mom, forgive me, you know, for the way I used to talk to you and all that. But this day it was like, Authentic. And I said she was sitting in the back of the room. It's like 200 people, man. She's sitting in the back with my two children. And I said, man, before I say my testimony, I just want to say, I said, I'm going to tell my mother, mom, please forgive me. And I could barely breathe. Like, I was like, mom, please forgive me for the way I treated you. I said, you didn't deserve none of that, you know, because I'm honored that your father and mother don't come with stipulations because some people think because your mom on drugs or your mom or your dad or you got to write, uh, don't come with stipulation. And, uh, I was like, mom, please forgive me. And, uh, and I'll never forget. I just, and it was quiet and people, the power of forgiveness came in the room. They understood the power of it because I was from the back of the room. She said, I forgive you, Robert, like that, man, the whole place. erupted, praising God, crying. People was just crying all over. It was the power of forgiveness. Um, and she forgave me. And, um, but another time, um, the forgive, no, just helping me. I started to understand forgiveness as I went along. And you know, it was a, it was somebody, it was people that have done things to me in my life that I couldn't forgive, man. And I was like, God, how do you forgive somebody? I was like, cause they keep coming up, you know, the person's face keep coming up the next day. And God told me one day, literally, he said, listen, Forgiveness don't come with feelings. Oh man. Mic drop. Just told me straight out. It was a Ephesians 4 32. It talks about forgiveness, but it also has all the feelings that you have in the beginning. And it said, you know, show people kindness and, um, it says, show people kindness. Here it is right here. It says, uh, and be kind to one another, tender heart, just as God in Christ. forgave you. And so you look at the top part of saying, be kind to one another and be tenderhearted and seek. And when you don't forgive, it takes that from your heart, the kindness and being tenderhearted. You, when you don't forgive, it's trying to show you what your heart experiences outside of forgiveness, the first part. And it said, just know, be kind and tenderhearted to one another, just as God in Christ Jesus forgave you. And so I took that verse. And I'm telling you, I forgave, because I not only hurt people, you'll see in the book, but it was people. And I, it was times I couldn't sleep like for, for what people did. And I took this verse and I said, Lord, I forgive this person just like you forgave me in Christ Jesus. And I said, I forgive. And it didn't come with feelings. And the next day, the same feeling come, I had the same feeling about the person. And I'm telling you, and, and what God taught me in that moment, he said, just say forgiven. And I was like, because what me and you did was real because at that moment, it was actually real. What I went through, what I, the forgiveness I did, but the next day it comes up, it don't feel like you did it. You didn't do it right. You like, no, God told me like you did it right. And so soon as that person probably your mind at the devil, because the devil keep bringing it up, you say, forgive him. And then you might feel this way, but. You speak this way, you respond this way outside of feelings. And man, I'm telling you, it's people that I have literally forgave people and the wound got so it's no longer open anymore in my life. It's um, it's closed up, it healed and it got stitches and it's just a scar now. And, um, it's a testimony for me because, and that's what I, that's, I just want everybody to understand feelings don't come. But I mean, forgiveness don't come by feelings, but it comes by, um, with you, your trust, uh, forgiveness through the word of God, because he forgave you. I like how you, you put that in. Yes. That's definitely was a mic drop to say forgiveness doesn't come with feelings because It's a, that too is a process, I believe. And with you, I like how you said, because it was original at first, and it may not feel original because you're thinking the feelings should align with it already when it doesn't at that time. It's going to take, it's still going through the healing process, but I also like what you said about that verse, be kind and tender hearted because the opposite of it is unkind and hard hearted. Bitterness, bitterness, anger. What do we see so much of today? Yeah. And anger. And, some people don't even realize they are angry. And, but we still, we see the tell a tale signs a lot of there they're scowled all up snap quick. like you were saying, how you were reacting to things. And that's just how it is when a person is angry and haven't had that experience of forgiveness yet. So that's that power, because we need that power of forgiveness to actually help us with the anger and help people. Everybody needs this because it is so much anger out here. There's real rage. This people want, anything to step on their toe and they're ready to kill them. And then it's, and it can send you off to prison. It can end your life. Um, just the description of, you know, some of those altercations and like we all have, had, or, what happened with your brother, but the night before he was killed, I mean, when he was killed, I should say, um, if you were not angry, if you had stuff under control, that could make a big difference is it's life or death. And when we see the power of forgiveness and God saved us, right. And We see actually repeated in front of us in our day to day lives. We can be saving people saving ourselves, through allowing God to help us with that. So I like how you coupled that because most people thinking that they need to do it by themselves. Their feelings should be aligned with it right now. And. I, I like how you just debunk that that's not true and you are a real life case of losing a loved one still missing and showing how the power of forgiveness can work on that and how it changed your life. And then you talked about. Forgiving your mom too. And we have another instance of blowing up the room, like we, who, again, you affected a lot of people and I'm not sure if they knew what they were looking at, but forgiveness is what we need. That's why I named this show, a prisoner's pardon, because we're looking for answer for. Recidivism and most people wouldn't think about forgiveness or just a pardon and I just want to coincide the two. That is still accountability. The young man who killed your brother still went to jail, still had an account, but that doesn't negate forgiveness because some people may think, I know you've probably seen it. Oh, I thought you forgave me. And they're thinking that there's no consequences with it. If you forgive somebody, Oh, all the consequences are wiped away. What do you think about that? I understand. That's like, like even God, when he forgive you, he forgive you your sins, but people may not forgive you. You get what I'm saying? I look at that. I thought that once I gave my life to Christ, that people will forgive me. It's still people working on forgiving me now because I was so, you know, It's people that still see me and they cautious and like they, you know, you could tell, um, that just because you've been forgiven. That don't mean everybody forgive you, you know, um, by the cross. I thought that for a while, but you still got, sometimes you still got consequences, you know, um, sometimes you just be wiped clean. It's a lot of people that have been, you know, the power of price ain't nothing to play with. It'll wipe you clean. It'll wipe clean. It'll wipe like everything clean. But some people. You know, God still, you don't know how he, he moves. Sometimes he is still, you'll be forgiven by him, but sometimes you still got to, you know, pay the consequences. Um, cause, uh, even when I, when I did stuff when I was younger, I remember. I did that robbery when I was younger, but I got a chance to ask their family for forgiveness. You know, you like you talk that last sentence and day, but I still had to go to jail. It was like, I still had, um, my time to do. So I totally understand that. So what do you think about when people say, well, not when people say, but when the Bible says, the truth was set you free. How would you. How would you align that with forgiveness? The truth will set you free. Yeah, it's, um, I think that's personal. Mm hmm. I think that's your heart, you know, your, um, your sin condition, you know? Mm hmm. I think that's more what it's talking about, your heart, your heart issues, your sin, your sin condition. It'll set you free. Um, but does life continue? Yeah, it's still gonna be death and the family, you know? You still gonna get like, like I gotta say, my, my daughter was running away from, she was 14 to, and I'm deep in the ministry after she was running away from 14, she was 18 years old. You know, life don't stop. It has set you free, but, but just life don't stop, but you have a piece God to give you. It's just like a special piece that you have that the world don't give. You know, the truth of sexuality is this. It's true. It's like, even when I lost my grandmother, I didn't go crazy. It was just like, it was, it was keeping me, you know, grew up with my grandma stayed in my grandma's house off and on. It was just a piece. Um, along with my heart. I like that. and also I was thinking too, though, when I'm talking about the truth of set you free, because that power of forgiveness is setting you free as well. And it's, um, it's giving you that peace. So part of forgiveness is being, I believe, truthful, honest, and looking at things the way they are. And that's how I believe it does to coincide with how the truth is. And you're just not lying to yourself about just seeing yourself for. The limitations that we have and the things that we've done wrong and not doubling down on it and just trying to excuse it because I've seen when you double down, you, you holding on, you holding on to things and you can't get that true forgiveness having that truth and having that forgiveness and that peace. And it's, it's a valuable thing. Peace is. Everybody should know who's listening how precious pieces is, you know, and God does says is no peace for the wicked and it is true. That's why I said, I think it's personal. Yeah. A prisoner's. Pardon? And that it, it's like unforgiveness is like, you not free. You know? When you hold unforgiveness it's like you hear people always say that. It's like you drinking poison and you hope Mm-Hmm. hoping other person die. It's, it's true. You be captive, man. And it was like, man, dude, the change dropped off me once. Uh, when you read the book, you know, people read the book How I was forgiving. And I was forgiving other people. You know, I was just, I was just running around like, man, would you please forgive me? If you, when you read the book, you're like, I want you, I was going to my uncle's aunties, friend girls that I used to date and stuff like that. Cause I wasn't in my right mind. I was like, would you please, and I was actually hurting. And, um, that's just what it was. It was just a life of, please forgive me. After he forgave me and I seen people and I seen how I was destructive, man. I heard a lot of people. I heard a lot of people and, um, but everybody I met, they, they, they forgave me and it was a bless at the moment and it was the power of it. You know, I think that it's not just forgiving somebody, but it's, it's the power of forgiveness that the cross, I think. That's the difference between when we forgive as Christ followers, when we be obedient to forgiveness, when God calls us to, we experienced the power of the cross, the forgiveness of the cross. And look how powerful it was, man. The blood will be died, will be dead and gone and the blood will never lose its power. It will still be forgiven. So we deal with that. When we obedient, God call us to say, Hey, forgive this person, or you better do it. Free and set the other person free because that's what that's what it does. It sets you free and another person free. I like how You were saying here about you were hurting. what do you mean you were hurting? How were you, you were talking about when I was going to the people? Yeah. You said you were hurting. I was very violent. I was a very violent person, you know, and, and by being the oldest and stuff like that, I just felt obligated. It was like, it was times I wanted out the game, but I bought the equipment. The gang life home GDs, you know, I brought it home. We was lynched mob renegades. So I feel, I felt bad, uh, over the years cause I brought it home and I lost a brother to a murder. I lost cousins to a murder, all that type of, I just felt bad. So when I was asking for forgiveness, I was hurting, man, but and God allowed me to feel, um, uh, the pain, you know, of, of when you hurt people and you, and you wanted forgiveness. I can't explain it. It was just, I just felt just like, man, please forgive. I remember I was in a family dollar. It's a long story. I couldn't find a job. And I was, and my sister in law come up here where I said, man, I ain't working in no family dollar. Man, God was like, go. Cause that would turn into my ministry. He didn't know. I remember one of my guys walked up in there. This guy, I used to always like bully like, I was, we was cool, but I used to bully him. And, and, uh, he walked in there one day and I saw me and I walked up to him. I said, Hey, Hey, what's up, man? He's like, what's up base. And I know he remembered, you know, and I, and I looked at him. And I say, man, what you, I said, look, I said, you know, the way I used to treat you was wrong. And man, I just started weeping right in front of him. I said, please forgive me, man. I said, I wasn't in my right mind. I said, but I accepted Christ in my life, dude. I was like, man, I said, I'm doing much man. That brother looked at me. And he was like, I forgive you, but I said, no, no, no. Listen, I need you to forgive me for the way I treated you. And that there was the power of Christ. It wasn't just forgiven. It was the power of forgiveness in that, in the, in the aisle, you know, and that brother hugged me and you could just feel it. I just felt the Holy spirit all on both of us. Cause he knew that it was authentic, you know, cause I used to treat him wrong. And I, and he told me, forgive me, man. I hugged him. I got his number to this day, you know. I appreciate that because I, I want this to come out talking about the emotions of it too. And what, what people should be seeing if they truly forgive someone is like, it wasn't what, like you say, fake, I wasn't like, Oh, forgive me. And all that. And then, you know, that's not, True forgiveness, what we're saying here, and what you actually just put into words, you feel the pain. Now of what you've done, you see the person now and you feel pain about it and you say what you did because, and you were hurting, you said you had bust out, you know, crying and stuff. It is nothing wrong with that because it's showing that it was authentic because it was, it was painful. You now feel pain. Something where before you were desensitized, I would say you were hard hearted. Now you're tender hearted, tender hearted people when other people are hurt. Yes. So this is like audience. This is a red flag here. If you're not hurting and feeling painful for what you've done, I think you should rethink. Look at this again, because something is not right because you should be tender hearted. Tenderhearted people hurt. They don't, they can't just do something, because. It hurts them to do something that's wrong. Um, so that's a big red flag that if you don't feel anything, it's nothing like what's what's wrong with it. You know, like we become so desensitized with this television and social media and in not understanding the. What's the, I would say transformation that's going on inside of you, like you transformed into what Christ made you to be, which is to be tenderhearted, forgiving and kind. That means you're not walking around all exposed and you're going to get hurt every time somebody say something wrong to you. And now it's funny, we'll say tenderhearted, but on the outside of it, it's like you kind of, you think more thick skin. You're not as sensitive. As you were the wrong way, but you're sensitive in the right way. So, and then I like how you describe how the power again is, I cannot negate this. It is forgiveness. True forgiveness is very powerful. It changes people on the inside. It, it changes. When I say change people, it changes the heart, the heart, the heart. You become compassion. I think like he can feel like that. That's why Jesus was so compassionate. He could feel, you know, and that's, that's what, that's what it's all about. I can feel again. That's what happened to me. When I see him in that, that aisle like that, I feel compassion. And I was just like, man, I just felt so much compassion for him, but not just him. It was a lot of people, man, that I remember my uncle down there, man. I used to, me and him got into it all the time, but you know, I was more aggressive. And, um, when I got, I'm telling you. When I got saved, I seen him at my mom's house, man. I said, can I talk to y'all, man? Christ was all on me, man. Back. I said, Hey, listen, I said, I love y'all. He said, I love you too, man. I love you too. And, um, I said, but man, I said, look, please forgive me for the way I was treated and I was like, and I could see how I treated him in my mind. You know, I can feel it. And I was like, man, I could feel it. And I was just like, and I just started to weep, man. And it wasn't showing that I was no punk or nothing like that. It was just showing like, I could feel again. And I was like, I'm sorry. And he was like, I forgive you, man. And man, the way we hugged, it was the power. It was the power. See, forgiveness got power to, and so it'll change your heart, man. I'm telling you. And the way people, the way you see things and the way people see you, because it forgiveness not only affects you, but it affects every person. Oh yeah. I like how, again, you. You, you described it perfectly and how the whole room changes and yeah, I was there. So I was there myself before and, you know, growing up in tough neighborhoods. Right, Pastor. It can be, you feel you gotta be tough. And it's just, well, you're going to get ate up and that's just, that was a survival. It was about survival, but, I know God showed me another way and I'm sure he, like he showed you, you don't have to lose your heart. You don't have to lose, um, That's sensitive nature in because God actually fights your battles for you. I didn't realize that either. So, and because we're not built to fight those type of battles and stuff. We do fight battles, but he, he actually does the work for us and we just follow orders. I should say, and then we're still intact. We were able to. still be around people be kind hearted and tender, but also hold people accountable as well and have that good balance where you don't lose sight of things. So, and again, this, this, I cannot again, just tell you how. powerful, how much we need forgiveness, true forgiveness, and but where we don't see it around, you know, they always saying, be kind. I don't know if you've been hearing that lately. Yeah, yeah. You hear those words. Yeah. Then it's like, they don't tell you how to be kind. How do you just be kind? Yeah. And then he's like, okay, I'm gonna try to be kind when you was trying to be kind. Did you, were you able to do it? No. Good. Be good. All that type of, I think, I think. I think I really think that you should like Peter. They was like, how many times you said 70 times 7. The reason why Jesus said that about forgiveness, when you forgive somebody said 70 times 7. He's like, man, what? They ask for more faith. The reason why is because Santa's in the world, you know. This world. And so sin needs to be forgiven. And so that, that is very important. So even in my marriage, like the, the key words is always to my wife, forgive me, I was wrong. And this is not all the time, but it's, it's just saying, forgive me. I was wrong because you ain't going to always get it right in relation. So them, them, the key words and forgive me. And then the other person should be in place. For forgiveness, because it's not something you all you all the time doing like hurting or say something wrong or I said something too loud or something like that. So I always be like, hey, I stopped myself instantly. So the power of Christ, you keep flowing in my life. Because unforgiveness, it stops it. So I, I'll be like, Hey sweetheart, I apologize. I was a little too loud with that. And she, my wife would look at her and she'd be like, forgive like that. And we get right back to, you know, letting Christ flow in our lives. Because unforgiveness, it, it, it, it stops the flow of Christ in your life. It goes back to what you were saying, like with your mom. You lose that intimacy, that opening that you have, and you lose it with, it's not even, I think, you know, some people think you can compartmentalize it, you know, you'll put it in a certain section and it won't flow into other relationships, but. We're just not made that way. Look at our blood. Look how our blood flows through us. You can't just keep it in your your hand part. You can't just keep it in one body part that forgiveness unforgiveness flows into every relationship everything you do and most effective most importantly, I should say you lose that intimacy with Christ because he God is not one to overlook stuff, he's gonna, he's gonna bring it up, call it out, and you're gonna be under this conviction, and once you're under that conviction, that's when you feel that hurt. And you, and you're actually seeing people and what they're doing, what you've done to them. And you see yourself as well. I'm talking from experience as well. You see your own sins and you'd be like, I need forgiveness. And so we, it's, it's actually, it has to be, it's not just a one time thing. So, and that's, I'm glad you brought up. That how many times he said seven times tonight. They had some more faith than it was like, Lord, give us more faith. It's actually like real. You, you have to forgive as Christ forgave you. So, because, because even Jesus, he was like, Lord, take this, this bitter cup. It was a bit, it was, that cup was bitter because that unforgiveness is, it was a bitter cup and he had to take on it. He had to take on our sins because we were unforgiving and, and, but by his blood, we're forgiving, but the cup itself. And it was unforgiveness, man. We, we, we had Christ paid our debt, man. So that cup that, what he went through, he suffered, his soul suffered. And so all that has to do with unforgiveness. Um, your soul suffers and that's your mind, your emotions and your own will. You'll even make bad decisions through unforgiveness, just resting in your bones and in your heart like that. You'll, you'll be able to take you off course. And, but that's, so that's why. Forgiveness is so important and otherwise, if you don't have this forgiveness, you have this anger. If you have this anger, I mean, this is most of your story, right? That's most of. Everybody's story, I would think I would, imagine that if someone's going in and out and of jail, or they're constantly just in trouble and stuff, it's usually an anger issue. And I'm and we see it every day. Just look at these people look at people. They're angry. And some of the stuff is like over this, why are you angry for, but it's, it's not because of that one incident. It's something that's been building other stuff and it's, you have to deal with this is or it's what it's going to escalate and it's not, can you talk, I like how you brought up too, is that when you forgive other people. It necessarily doesn't happen where the other person forgives you, but do you still have this piece? Yeah. Okay. Because you was obedient to what God told you. Well, that's, that's the, it's about just being obedient. It don't say that God didn't tell you that the other person would change. He just told you to, you just have to do your part. And sometimes people don't. That the other hand don't receive, but you did your part and that that's it. That that's the key behind it. It's just you, you doing God's will. It's just like when Christ came, he, he, he was sent for everybody, but he was, he was rejected. He came for the Jews, but they rejected him. He did his part. He, he did his part. The blood was still for them as well, you know? And so he did his part and, and we have to just do our parts in life. And sometimes the other person won't respond. And you wish they do, but now you got to just move along. Now, did you have any problem forgiving yourself? Oh, absolutely. For you, man, for years, for years. Man, I was I think that's what the problem was. And you know what? Other people forgave me at times and I may forgive myself. It was a few people that forgave me and I forgive myself. And I was like, man, you got to let that go, man. You know, you'd be like it works that way as well. But I had, I had a huge problem with forgiving myself. And, uh, when I had been forgiven, even with God, like, like, how could he forgive me for all the stuff I did? I can't even talk about it. I'd be in prison, but I was like, how could he forgive me? And so, you know, the devil always try to manipulate unforgiveness, you know, or forgiveness rather. He, he always tried to manipulate forgiveness. That comes from Christ, um, like, no, you ain't worthy and all that, but, but he found me worthy. And so that is what it is. And I stand on that today. And I think, do you think this was part of when you, my mind is made up, you were saying when you finally got your mind made up, were you at that point too? Getting past forgiving yourself and being able to forgive yourself and just do the work. What was going on there? Yeah, I was ready. Once my mind was made up, I was ready for anything. That's just what it was. It was like, I was, I was like, I knew my mind. It was something different that took place. Cause usually when I got, when I was like, I was going to do something, I had my foot one in the world and one in the church, one in the program and one in the world. And sometimes I had both feet in, but I still entertain those thoughts that weren't, weren't right. And I would let you know, I, I would you, whatever you entertain becomes your reality. So sometimes I kind of entertain You know, smoking cigarettes again, I get out, go have sex, all that type of stuff. Entertain the morning and he said, just overtake me as it would anybody and you know, and I'd like to point that out to people because I see so many times that we, we. We forget that we can't do nothing without Christ and how powerful sin is, but forgiveness is powerful, more powerful than sin. And when we start forgiving people, we can start today forgiving yourself, having that intimate relationship with God, having him forgive. You, did you ask him for forgiveness as well? How did that go? I see what a made up mind, just reading the scriptures, Jesus, his life showed us that we struggled, you know, cause we got to give up some things and he had to give up his life. And at one point at three times, he said, father, take this cup away from me. But right after that, he said, not my will, but your will be done. So it was, I was trapped between both. He was showing us Our life because he had on the body put on a body and he showed us our struggle and it's the same way. I got to give up this. That's why a lot of people say because it's uh, they got to give up some things and it was a struggle. But once I, once I made my mind up, just like Christ, he did, he said, not my will, your will be done. That was the last part when he did it 3 times and it took him to the cross. And see, that's what I told you. Um, well, I don't know if I told you or not, but we had a sidebar, but it was a lot of scholars believe that the garden of Gethsemane was the most powerful place, um, because it's the place where he made up his mind to go to the cross. And so. It was the same way, a made up mind to take you where you need to be. And so made my mind up and it took me to the cross and I confessed. I was like, that's when I was honest. I was like, Lord, I'm a sinner. I'm in need of grace. And, and I'm telling you, man, I never, my mind was made up. And it was open. I promise you, I ain't been back since I had, I ain't been back since I'm talking about, I haven't been back since, since 2000, December 10th, 2012. I haven't been back since cause I put both feet in him. I made my mind. I said, Lord, I'm done. I said, use me. You know, I said, use me Lord for your glory. I was like, ah, I don't want to go back no more. And that was it. And the power of forgiveness came, boom, it hit me. And I knew I was free and I wept and wept. Man, he just let me know that I was forgiven, man. And it, and it showed cause man, all type of doors start opening for me, man. I was about to go into that because you said, um, a very important thing when everybody thinks you feel like you, um, given up a lot, but do you gain more? Did you gain? Oh, that's a, that's a, that's the deception. That is, that's the deception that the. Want us to be like, hold on to our past because ain't nothing there. It was nothing there. Mm-Hmm. And I was like, you know, the, the, the, the sex drugs kicking it party, all that. It ain't even worth compared to what? The, what? He opened doors for me, man. I, he, the first time, the first, so when I did that, I went on a ministry trip and um, I, we gave our testimony, I had to give my testimony this one church way up north. All right, this guy walked up to me and he described his experience. When he first got saved, when God forgave him of all his sins, he told me, he said, when that, when I received Christ that day, he forgave me of all my sins. He said, I ain't felt the Holy spirit like this in years, young man. And he said, he said, um, God told me to tell you, you need to go back to school and I'm gonna pay for it. And, um, it was the power of forgiveness that paid for my first year of school. And, and so when I went back to the, to the treatment center, I came back with a check to go back to school because they knew how much it cost my books and all that, and they put it in the safe and this time, God to put something before me so I won't run no more. Okay. And so all that, I, I was in a program I had, I was waiting to, uh, get out of this just so I can go back to school. It was paid for. That's what I'm talking about. Thank you for, exposing that lie and, feeling like you're going to lose so much when actually you're going to gain right in its way. It's priceless. And, and right now you're actually being cheated. Right? When you think you're, you, when you think you're doing good and you, you can't just give that up and you're not gonna make it. You know? And I hope someone that's listening and hear that right now, um, at this moment that they feel like they're okay. I don't wanna give this and that up, right? We are, we are here to tell you that trust you, trust you gotta gain way more. And once you understand the, the, the pricelessness of it, you're going to be like, man, I've been cheating all this time and I've been faked out and I'm going to tell you that. And when I had, like, when I did that, it was a girl that was kind to me, man. I mean, she was there the whole time, but once I checked into the ministry, when God had called me in, I had both feet in my mind, God told me that she couldn't go and it broke my heart. And my wife noticed it broke, but she didn't do, you know, she, she, she didn't understand. And I was like, but I came into her life manipulative and God told me it's done. We're done with that. And, uh, it changed everything. And once I, I let, I finally let that go and cause it took me a while, man, cause I couldn't understand it. But then when I did do it, I did it by faith. I didn't, I didn't go off my feelings. God was like, I need you to do this now. It was like an urgent call in my spirit. And I just let her know, you know, and I just stayed away. I was like, she couldn't understand it, but I'm going to tell you I did that. I went through the repercussions of that. She was calling mad in the center, you know, doing stuff, saying stuff. It was crazy. But my wife came after that. I promised it. Yup. Somebody to help me carry the vision that God called me to. Yup. Cause when you give, when you separate yourself, when you, uh, he said, he who keeps his life will lose it. But he who loses his life for me, Jesus said, we'll find it. And that's what it was. And I'm telling you what, the more you, you, you give up things in your life, the things that. That don't mean you no good man, or the thing, it can be some good things sometime in your life. Don't always think it's the bad things. A lot of people always think it's the bad things God coming after. But it's the good things, because there was some time I had to give up a radio station. I was teaching on a radio station. I heard God say, clear as day, that give that up. And I need you to stop doing this over here in this ministry part. And these were good things. And I gave him up and he opened a door for me over here. And I was like, Oh, I see why. So it's not always bad things because that's what it can be. Some, some things that are beneficial as well. But when God say, give it up, give it up because he has a perfect plan for your life. It's a perfect plan. So that means we can't. Add to it or take away from it. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for this. Um, we're about to wrap this up. And thank you for just revealing. I don't want to call them secret things. I want to call them things that is hidden. They're treasures that. We need to know about when we thinking about giving up things for God and how, forgiveness plays a big part of you. The biggest part, I believe of you being able to step away from, the lifestyle you had before that sent you back and forth to prison, had you under those influences and had you spiraling down in the fun. And it's like, I know we You know, I look at this every day and it's, I believe it's a spiritual thing when we hold on to things that we know. It's no good. We see where we at and we still want to hold on to it. And again, just thank you telling us how it was for you to separate from those things and how benefits that you didn't have before started coming and how your wife came after that. It's like you have to get through this test in time. I'm pretty sure going back to what you say, it don't feel good. Oh, your feelings don't usually be there yet. It's faith. This is faith, not feelings. Okay. Okay. Faith over feelings. I like that one. So is there anything else you want to tell the audience, we mentioned your book, 80 Barry white voices. Um, can they get it on Amazon or? Yes, they can get it on 80 Barry White Voices, Robert Dean Bell, it's on Amazon now and it's cheap. Everybody's like, man, you got it cheap. It's 14. 99, but it's a, it's an impactful read. It's engaging. Teenagers should read this book. You know, uh, it's really like a 00, you know, a 007 start. It just start off like action packed. You will see the story, man. I'm telling you, it's a great book. 1499. Plus I want to shout out to my church, Life Church, Milwaukee, and I'm here on 56th and Burlap, our service times at 9 30 and 11 AM, right on 56th and Burlap, Life Church, Milwaukee, 9 o'clock services. And I'm here to tell you that he is who we say he is. Christ Jesus is who we say he is. All right, I thank you so much for that shout out and a great show again. I really don't get enough times to talk about forgiveness, but your story and what you went through was perfect. And you just really gave us the details about forgiveness. Life feelings, how you feel, how you can get cheated, how, how was worth it and just how far you've come and how God has blessed you. But I thank you again for joining me. Thank you audience for listening and may you have a week filled with blessings.